Saturday, July 11, 2009


July 11, 2009

Dr. Joseph Dillard

Below is a recent email from Dr. Joseph Dillard giving an excellent example of his Integral Deep Listening (IDL) technique. He has generously allowed me to publish it here. The bold questions may be applied to any dream or event. His personal responses give insights that speak for themselves.

Joseph Dillard's IDL website is:

Dear Eugene,

I'm back from Europe! Here's an intrapsychic update!

Three life issues:

1. Building IDL [Integral Deep Listening] - getting it to as many people as possible in the time I have
2. Keeping focused - not letting myself get distracted by stuff I don’t have any real power over - aging, the behavior of other people.
3. Resistance to becoming Sangha members and following their recommendations

Tell me a dream you remember. It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

July 10
I am helping people get over a high and difficult mountain pass, I believe in a wheeled cart. While I am doing so I am telling them that there are at least five or six dimensions, which they don’t believe. While they understand the three dimensions of space, I have them experience time and their feelings. Claudia is in the dream and I think also her mother, Ingrid.

Why do you think that you had this dream?

The content is influenced by our going over the high alpine pass in Austria just a couple of weeks ago. It’s also influenced by me teaching and being a teacher. Also, I spent considerable time at the end of this last trip with Ingrid, Claudia’s mother. It definitely strengthened our relationship. Also, when I teach, I have people learn about new perspectives by becoming them, similar to how I have the people experience time and their feelings in this dream.

If it were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?

“Alpine Dimensions”

These are the characters in the dream…

Claudia, her mother, people, the Alps, a wheeled cart, different dimensions.

If one character had something especially important to tell you, which would it be?

Wheeled Cart

(Character,) would you please tell me what you look like and what you are doing?

I am a simple, rough, wooden two or four-wheeled cart with upright logs or boards. I could be pulled by horses or a car, I suppose. There are people standing in me. I don’t know what pulls me. I am transporting people over this mountain pass.

What do you like most about yourself in this experience? What are your strengths?

I am helping people ascend, move over obstacles, and move into new territory with new possibilities. I am sturdy and get the job done.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses? What are they?

Well, I’m not the smoothest or fastest ride around! By today’s standards I am definitely impractical! The number of people I can hold is limited and I am not self-propelled. The people inside me don’t control me, nor do I control myself. I rely on something outside myself to move, and I am not even sure what it is, since it doesn’t seem to be in this dream. But there is no doubt that I have effectively gotten people this far: to the top of a very, very high pass. The heavy lifting is done. They could walk from here. Maybe they don’t need me any more!

(Character), you are in this person’s dream or life experience, correct? They created you, right?_____ (Character), what aspect of this person do you represent or most closely personify?

Joseph’s slow, plodding, limited growth to this point. It could have been faster and easier, but oh well. It has gotten him to an exceptional vantage point. It has done its job. A new stage is now available.

If you could change this experience in any way you wanted, would you? If so, how would you change it?

From now on people get their choice of ways to proceed. Some may choose to walk, others to drive cars, others to take trains, others to fly, others to continue in old wheeled carts like myself.

(Character,) if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change? If so, how?

I would not change. I would simply remain as one of a multiplicity of alternatives.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

(Character), how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing? (And why?)

Confidence: 10 I’m in one piece and still sturdy after hauling all these people up here. I am extremely reliable because I’m
Compassion: 10 I exist to serve others.
Wisdom: ? I don’t need wisdom. I just am.
Acceptance: 10 What’s not to accept?
Inner Peace: 10 I don’t worry about things humans worry about.
Witnessing: 8 While I am way detached compared to humans, I am
definitely part of the growth process

(Character,) if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different? If so, how?

I would find my life to be extraordinarily funny! Here I am a cart, rather like Sisyphus, but not minding my fate at all. In fact, I rather enjoy the absurdity of people using something like me in a high-tech age.

How would the life of the person who created you be different if he/she naturally scored high in all six of these qualities all the time?

He would be laughing at himself and his life all the time! I doubt that there would be much that he would take seriously! He would also be mindful of an extraordinary range of options that are available to him. He wouldn’t limit himself by doing and being who he has been to this point.

If you could live the life of the person who created you for him/her, how would you live it differently?

See above.

If you could live this person’s waking life for him/her today, would you handle his/her three life issues differently? If so, how?

Regarding building IDL, it’s quality over quantity. What I have provided is quality growth that allowed you to stop and smell the roses and appreciate things you miss when you travel at a faster speed. Everything is going to speed up now. Don’t forget me!

Regarding keeping focused, I don’t have that problem. I am focused. Be me when you want to be focused.

Regarding resistance to becoming Sangha members and following their recommendations, I think you’re ridiculous. You do an incredibly good job of that and you’re getting better at it all the time. So lighten up!

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of his/her life?

Quality over quantity.
Versatility and adaptability

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for this person to imagine that they are you and act as you would?

When he gets rattled or takes things too seriously.

Why do you think that you are in this person’s life experience (or dream)?

To get him to take the large view. To see the big picture.

Why do you think that he had this dream?

To show him how far he’s come. To show him he has really made a difference in the lives of other people and other aspects of himself. To show him that if he can do that for one he can do that for millions.

(Insert a question or questions about other characters/actions in the dream...)

What about those dimensions?

What about them? You help people see them, take them into account, and grow into them. It’s one way of understanding what you do. It’s called expanding consciousness. It’s called waking up.

How is this person most likely to ignore what you are saying to them?

Oh, getting immersed in minutia. Taking himself, stuff, too seriously.

(Dreamer,) what have you heard yourself say?

I’m on track. Lighten up. Enjoy. Relax.

(Dreamer,) if this experience were a wake-up call from your soul, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Life is absurd. Growth is good, and it doesn’t really matter if it’s slow or fast or whether we think it’s difficult or easy, bad or good.

Joseph Dillard and I met in 1987 just after I had created the CREEI Process for business and industry. His insights and counsel over the years since then have been invaluable and he has become one of my very best friends.

His most recent creation of INTEGRAL DEEP LISTENING has been of particular personal and professional help. I have unashamedly (with his permission) added his Deep Listening interview questions to my own CREEI process, which I now call CREATIVE DEEP LISTENING or CDL (not to be confused with "commercial drivers license"! ;-) )

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