Sunday, February 25, 1979

The 1979 BYU Moral Values Seminar

January 16 -- February 25, 1979

I came to Provo shortly after Thanksgiving 1978 to work with the Eyring Research Institute (ERI) on a classified military proposal and was the house guest of Eugene and Charlotte England for the duration of the project.

One day, shortly after New Year's Day, I received a call from BYU philosophy professor Terry Warner, whom I did not know, asking if I would be interested in participating in an experimental seminar called The Moral Values Seminar under the auspices of the university. It would run for six weeks and would require much personal inner work. I assumed Gene England had referred me to him, so I agreed to it at once.

I did not ask much about what I was getting into, but on the eve of the first seminar day, I had a nightmare, which I call Enemy at the Window.
1/16/79. 0340. Provo. I am with two other LDS men in a big house, waiting the final moments of the enemy’s advance. One man is expressing himself regarding preaching the Gospel to the enemy. He is on the phone to others regarding this proposition and looks over to the other fellow for validation. The other fellow is sitting looking out the front window and has a look of horror frozen on his face. On closer examination we discover the man is dead.

“Is it too late?” I ask.

“Yes”, the man on the phone says, looking startled, incredulous and uncomprehending.

I begin to pray: “Father, thank you for the time here I’ve been allowed. I’m sorry I’ve not been a better friend, a better father, or a better husband. Please receive my spirit.”

My remaining companion now appears to be talking to the enemy through the front window. As he does, he comes over and covers me with a blanket. I breathe as shallowly as I can, feigning death as I am stretched out on the couch. At any moment I expect to be shot.

CREEI Score: +?++?-//--?/??? Anticipatory Traumatic

Clearly Enemy at the Window presented me with hidden fears in anticipating the seminar.

The seminar was intense and enlightening. At the end of the six weeks I had another dream which seems to sum up the lessons learned. I call it Disarming Hitler’s Nephew. Here is a Creative Deep Listening interview of one of its non-human characters. (A recommendation of the technique's creator.)

Date of interview: 21 August 2008 (note almost 30 years between dream and CDL interview)

Three Life issues:
1. Being or becoming authentic
2. Finding others who are or wish to become authentic
3. Helping others who are or wish to become authentic

Tell the dream.

2/25/79. 0445. Provo. I am outside with some people, including my father and an ecclesiastical leader [Ferren L. Christensen, who was involved in my first excommunication from and subsequent return to the LDS Church]. FLC is talking about the days at the end of World War II when Hitler was scheming to save his life. FLC reveals that he was there and is Hitler’s nephew! Then he talks about the intrigues and the compromises of many military officers in those days. In these days many of the officers are trying to achieve pardons. At one point FLC becomes upset with someone and pulls out a long knife--like drawing a sword from a scabbard), which he brandishes in a threatening way. When this happens I go up to him, grab his wrist and take the knife (sword) away from him. We then go walking to visit places where he once had been active. The people still remember and defer to him.

CREEI score: +++++//+++/+++: transformative

About the dream: seems to be a clear reference to the six weeks experience of the BYU Moral Values Seminar.

Dream characters: Dream self, father, FLC, other people, sword, outside, ground

Interviewing: Sword.

Sword, what do you look like and what you are doing?

I am a long, curved sword usually hanging in a scabbard at the side of an officer. In this case I belong to FLC, an LDS ecclesiastic leader. I am well constructed and maintained by FLC. My blade edge is sharp and well honed.

Sword, what do you like most about yourself in this experience? What are your

My strength is that I am available at any time FLC feels the need to use me.

Sword, what do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses? What?

I do not have weaknesses.

Sword, if you could change this dream in any way you wanted, would you? If so, how would you change it?

I would change nothing.

Sword, if this dream were to continue, what would happen next?

You can see that Eugene removes me from FLC's grasp. I have nothing to say about how I am used.

Sword, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change and if so, how?

No changes.

Sword, you are in Eugene’s dream, correct? He created you, right?

Yes, I am his soul's creation.

Sword, what aspect of this person do you represent or most closely personify?

I represent both offensive and defensive aspects of Eugene. I am his weapon of choice and can be used to cut away needless encumbrances or unwanted relationships.

Sword, if you could live Eugene's waking life for him, how would you live it differently?

I wouldn't.

Sword, if you could live Eugene’s waking life for him today, would
you handle his three life issues differently and if so, how?


Sword, what three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of
Eugene's life?

The same as above.

Sword, how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom,
acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?

Confidence: 10
Compassion: 0  I do what I'm told.
Wisdom: 0  I do what I'm told.
Acceptance: 10
Peace of mind: 10
Witnessing: 10 

Sword, how would Eugene's life be different if he naturally scored high in all six of these qualities all the time?

Eugene would probably have become a well regarded and successful professional.

Sword, in what life situations would it be most beneficial for Eugene to imagine that he is you and act as you would?

I do as I'm told by whatever aspect of Eugene has control over me. I cannot imagine Eugene's conscious self being me.

Sword, why do you think that you are in this dream?

To show Eugene a judgmental self-aspect that he has not until now accepted in himself, but has projected on others, specifically the LDS ecclesiastical leadership.

If this dream were a wake-up call from your soul, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Be aware of your projections, Eugene. Realize that what Nazi-like behavior you have seen in the LDS leadership has also been an aspect of yourself. Now you can make new decisions on how to behave better with compassion, acceptance and wisdom.