Saturday, November 18, 2006

Glenna's Counsel--Parts 1 and 2

Event: Saturday, November 18, 2006; Updated: May 4, 2011 [edited with color]

Dream Yoga: Glennie's Counsel, Part 1
Date of interview: 23 November 2006

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

Being authentic
Finding others who are or want to be authentic
Helping others be or become authentic

Tell a dream you remember...

Los Alamos
18 November 2006
0400

In a large living room with Glennie Christensen and other people. It is evening. Glennie and I are sitting in rocking chairs near a large old-fashioned rock fireplace as I am expressing to her my enthusiasm for William Baldwin’s Spirit Releasement Therapy manual. Glennie says, “You must write down what you see.” I promise to do so.

Why do you think that you had this dream?
I have been reading William Baldwin’s Spirit Releasement Therapy (SRT) manual for the past several weeks after discovering that I had had an SRT session with Baldwin and his wife Judith in March 1991 at the TREAT III conference in Kansas City. The two cassette recordings of this session turned out to be the first two of the six that I discovered in August 2004 before driving to the Salt Lake Sunstone Symposium. I had not listened to these recordings since they were made. The 13 year delay in reviewing these tapes continues to impress me, as if only now I am able to properly appreciate them.

For Glennie Christensen to be in the picture as the one I would express enthusiasm to regarding this particular book is especially significant to me, as well as her simple, clear counsel.

If it were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?
Glennie’s Counsel

These are the characters in the dream…
Large living room in big house, Glennie Christensen, me, other (unclear) people nearby, fireplace, fire, rocking chairs, wooden floor

If one character had something especially important to tell you, which would it be?
Living Room

Living Room, would you please tell me what you look like and what you are doing?
I am part of a large, very solidly build old Laguna Beach house. There is an active fire burning in the large open rock fireplace in my ocean side wall. I provide comfort and security for all those meeting here. It is a good place to discuss important issues.

What do you like most about yourself in this dream? What are your strengths?
I am solid, safe, reliable, and warm.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses? What?
I don’t dislike anything about myself. I am not aware of any weaknesses.

If you could change this dream in any way you wanted, would you?
I would not change it.

If this dream were to continue, what would happen next?
Eugene would begin writing his reflections regarding the book.

Living Room, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change? If so, how?
I would not change anything.

You are in Eugene’s dream, correct? He created you, right?
What is the purpose of this question? It has been asked many times of other dreams and Eugene’s answer stays the same.

Living Room, what aspect of Eugene do you represent or most closely personify?
A safe place to confide.

How would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?
Tens, all.

How would Eugene’s life be different if he naturally scored high in all six of these qualities all the time?
Eugene would probably have become a well regarded professional.

If you could live Eugene’s waking life for him, how would you live it differently?
That seems to me to be a presumptuous question. Eugene is living a meaningful waking life, even though it is not the kind of life he had planned or that his parents had hoped for him.

If you could live Eugene’s waking life for him today, would you handle his three life issues differently? If so, how?
I would handle them no differently.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of his life?
The ones above.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Eugene to imagine that he is you and act as you would?
I can’t imagine!

Why do you think that you are in this dream?
To give Eugene a safe, friendly place to think and reflect and where Glennie feels secure enough to tell Eugene what she truly thinks.

Eugene, what have you heard yourself say?
I have heard (to my surprise) encouraging counsel from the wife of a significant Mormon leader who has played a major part in my life. This is highly unusual considering the disregard I have generally felt from the upper levels of the Mormon ecclesiastical establishment.

If this dream were a wake-up call from your soul, what do you think it would be saying to you?
I think it is saying “PAY ATTENTION TO BALDWIN’s EXPERIENCE AND WISDOM.” This book gives especially important insight and descriptions of reality beyond this physical world, which is significantly different than the official Mormon view.

posted by Eugene @ 4:00 AM 1 comment

At 9:41 PM, December 06, 2006, Joseph Dillard (JD) said...
JD: Interviewing Glenna would probably elaborate her counsel.
EK: What is the purpose of this question? It has been asked many times of other dreams and Eugene’s answer stays the same.
JD: You don't need to ask it. But for new people it is essential, because it leads them logically to recognizing that the character being interviewed is a self-aspect at least in part. Many people assume they are dealing with something external to themselves.]
EK: Living Room represents a safe place to confide.
JD: A repetition of the theme of unviolated privacy and an implication of the need for security that comes from solid boundaries...
EK: ... a safe, intimate place to think and reflect, where Glenna identifies herself where she feels secure enough to tell Eugene what she truly thinks.
JD: Contrast the vulnerability of being blasted by the unexpected and unwanted voice of [LDS Apostle before he became Church president years later] Harold B. Lee [Ref. to ENK dream of 1 May 65 called May Day! May Day!] vs. making your consciousness safe for the Glenna part of you to be heard.

Eugene, what strikes me about this series [of dreams] is the support you have for your present course and your growth in self-acceptance. In the other [earlier dreams] is the need to protect yourself from invasion by internal and external voices that disrupt your privacy and security.

Namaste,

J


Sunday, January 07, 2007

Dream Yoga: Glennie's Counsel, Part 2
Date of interview: 4 January 2007

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

As before:

1. Being authentic
2. Finding others who are or want to be authentic
3. Helping others be or become authentic

Tell a dream you remember...

See "Glennie's Counsel" above.

Ref: Glennie’s Counsel, Part 1 (for interview of first character)

If a second character had something especially important to tell you, which would it be?

Glennie

Glennie, would you please tell me what you look like and what you are doing?

I am a pleasingly plump woman in my middle 70s, enjoying good conversation with my friend Eugene in a pleasant and safe place. I am reminiscing on those days when my husband Ferren was Eugene’s bishop and stake president. When Ferren was a regional representative he used to take Eugene with him to sing to various congregations. Years earlier, when Eugene used to visit our Laguna Beach ward, my husband would often call on him without warning to sing spontaneously from the congregation. Sometimes Eugene would even sing the scriptures. So, I am interested in what Eugene is doing these days. We are meeting in a house of friends after having experienced the memorial of Bob Perine. Bob was once a counselor to Ferren in the Laguna Beach bishopric and succeeded Ferren as bishop when Ferren was called into the stake presidency. Eugene had sung at the memorial in response to Bob’s will request to sing his song (“Hope”), which was written for Eugene’s voice many years ago.

What do you like most about yourself in this dream? What are your strengths?

I am grateful to be a devoted wife, mother and Church member. I am grateful to be able to completely support and sustain my husband in his many priesthood offices over the years. My strength is in my belief and faith and commitment to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I do not question the truthfulness of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses? What?

I’m not sure I dislike this about myself, but I do not question my many roles. I am childlike in my faith. Sometimes I wish I were more mature in it. I am a devoted follower, not a leader.

If you could change this dream in any way you wanted, would you?

I don’t see any reason to change anything, except to be more encouraging to Eugene.

If so, how would you change it?

I would encourage Eugene to describe his spiritual and artistic experiences more clearly, many of which are unusual or different from many of us. My husband has often expressed to me his belief that Eugene has a work to do among our people.

If this dream were to continue, what would happen next?

Eugene would begin writing his reflections on the book by William Baldwin. I don’t know what that book contains, but I sense from Eugene that it has important things to teach.

Glennie, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change? If so, how?

I would not want to be any place other than where I am just now. My life has been deeply satisfying and joyful.

Glennie, what aspect of Eugene do you represent or most closely personify?

I am a caring, non-judging, unconditional loving person in whom it is safe to confide.

How would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?

Confidence = 8; compassion = 10; wisdom = 9; acceptance = 10; peace of mind = 10; witnessing = 10.

Glennie, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different? If so, how?

I might be more assertive.

How would Eugene’s life be different if he naturally scored high in all six of these qualities all the time?

Eugene would probably have become a well regarded and famous professional.

If you could live Eugene’s waking life for him, how would you live it differently?

Well, I would be sure that he is more compassionate than he has managed to be in the past.

If you could live Eugene’s waking life for him today, would you handle his three life issues differently? If so, how?

Oh, I don’t think so. I like his stated life issues.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Eugene to imagine that he is you and act as you would?

When he is confronting challenging situations, I think I could help him respond in more compassionate and non-judgmental ways.

Why do you think that you are in this dream?

To give Eugene a different feminine reference than what he has had in his life before now. I believe he has important things to learn and do.

Eugene, what have you heard yourself say?

I have heard (to my surprise) the wife of a significant Mormon leader who has played a major part in my life give me counsel that is highly unusual in the Church. It seems to go counter to the general disregard I have felt from the Mormon ecclesiastical system.

If this experience were a wake-up call from your soul, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Take heart, Eugene. You are not as alone in the culture and society as you have felt you have been. Be more deeply attentive to your inner voice and to the lessons you are learning from your soul’s partnership with the Holy Spirit.
posted by Eugene @ 2:51 PM 0 comments

Wednesday, November 15, 2006

New Family Gathering

Event: Dream on 15 Nov 2006
Updated: 29 Aug 2012


Below is from my original blog created in March 2005 initially as a venting for an unresolved conflict with a local Mormon Church leader. Its purpose has gradually expanded into a journal of events and for inner work, which includes memories, dreams and reflections. It also includes an invitation to others for comments.

Wednesday, November 15, 2006
Dream Yoga: New Family Gathering, Part 1
Date of interview: November 22, 2006

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

Being authentic
Finding others who are or want to be authentic
Helping others be or become authentic

Tell a dream you remember...

New Family Gathering
Los Alamos
15 Nov 06


I am in the family room at home with wife Birgitta and other family members. Someone (Johnny? Barbara?) is performing quietly in the northwest music corner of the room (reminds me of Barbara’s music room in Provo). My brother Virgil has just come in the door at the southeast corner. Birgitta greets him with a welcoming hug.

Marianne is here in the room, standing around alone. She looks as she did 40 years ago. She talks to no one. No one else talks to her.

Outside in the gravel yard I see a haggard young mother walking towards the house from a nearby field with two small children (maybe ages 3 and 4) following. The children look mulatto, each having a full Afro head of grey hair. I go over to them to make contact and inquire about their welfare.


Why do you think that you had this dream?

I have been doing a lot of inner work recently such as: Dream Yoga (also called Integral Deep Listening) on old dreams with unresolved elements; reviewing and transcribing old (1991) unprocessed hypnotherapy sessions with William Baldwin and David Cheek; reaching out and finding old friends from long ago such as "Takeshi N" in Japan (an excommunicated stake president); engaging my children and other family members in dream work or inner dialogues; trying to tie up loose interior ends, ushering DFE and other unwanted and interfering entities into the Light, and generally getting better organized.

If it were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?

Reconciliation

These are the characters in the dream…

Family room, beautiful wall coverings, attractive carpets and furniture, myself, wife Birgitta, brother Virgil, Barbara? Johnny? Marianne, haggard mother, two mulatto children, gravel in driveway, distant fields.

If one character had something especially important to tell you, which would it be?

Family Room

Family Room, would you please tell me what you look like and what you are doing?

I am a large room, beautifully furnished with colorful Oriental carpets, fine wall hangings and portraits, sturdy well-made furniture, and grand piano.

What do you like most about yourself in this dream? What are your strengths?

I like the beauty and peace I enjoy and represent. My strengths are a welcoming atmosphere where people can gather together without discomfort or apprehension. I am also well made and strong.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses? What?

There is nothing I dislike about myself.

If you could change this dream in any way you wanted, would you? If so, how would you change it?

There is nothing to change. I have been waiting for this gathering for a long time. It is for this reason I was created.

If the dream were to continue, what would happen next?

Two main things: First, Eugene would bring in the haggard mother and her two children. They would be made to feel welcome, cherished and fed. Their future comfort and security would be looked after by any number of family members. Other children would be invited to make friends with the two young new-comers.

Second, Marianne would be well met and put at ease. Eugene would introduce her and have her speak. It is not clear what she would say, but most family members know who she is. Birgitta would take the lead in having her feel welcome, although it might be awkward at first. Eugene and Birgitta would be clear and firm in their interactions with her. Marianne would be invited to speak about her life and purpose and then encouraged to go into the Light.

Family Room, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change? If so, how?

No changes desired. This is my purpose.

(You are in Eugene’s dream, correct? He created you, right?)

But of course.

Family Room, what aspect of this person do you represent or most closely personify?

Hospitality.

How would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?

Ten in all categories.

Family Room, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different? If so, how?

Again. I have scored ten in all six categories.

How would Eugene’s life be different if he naturally scored high in all six of these qualities all the time?

Eugene would become a people person, taking inspiration on how to behave from his old friends Eugene England and John Howard.

If you could live Eugene’s waking life for him, how would you live it differently?

This is not my call. It seems to me that as his waking life parallels this dream and the extensions herein developed, he would feel his life has renewed meaning.

If you could live Eugene’s waking life for him today, would you handle his three life issues differently? If so, how?

Those issues are right on.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of his life?

These are the issues.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Eugene to imagine that he were you and act as you would?

Eugene would be well equipped to meet and interact with people of all kinds in his and Birgitta’s intention to form a Kosmos Salon in Los Alamos

[2012 Note: this has morphed into the Los Alamos Deep Democracy Open Forum, a non-profit corporation.]

Why do you think that you are in this dream?

To present to Eugene a way to resolve past tensions with Marianne and a new way to expand the family.

Eugene, what have you heard yourself say?

I have one important awkward relationship to reconcile with the family in a compassionate way.

If this dream were a wake-up call from your soul, what do you think it would be saying to you?

I think it is saying that hospitality and beloving skills are the most essential self-aspects needing to be developed in my life these days.

posted by Eugene @ 4:00 PM   1 comments

1 Comments:
At 9:33 PM, December 06, 2006, Anonymous Joseph Dillard said...
JD: Notice the difference in this room from the Bedroom, above... [in May Day! May Day!]

EK: It is saying that hospitality and beloving skills are the most essential self-aspects needing to be developed in my life these days.

JD: This seems right on...
 





Monday, November 13, 2006

May Day! May Day!


Event: Dream Yoga of old (1 May 1965) dream
Updated: 

Note: This is from my original blog created initially in March 2005 as a venting for an unresolved conflict with a local Mormon Church leader. Its purpose has gradually expanded into a journal of events and for inner work, which includes memories, dreams and reflections. It also includes an invitation to others for comments.

Monday, November 13, 2006
Dream Yoga: May Day! May Day!
Date of interview: 9-12 November 2006

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1. Being authentic
2. Finding others who are or wish to become authentic
3. Helping others who wish to become authentic

Tell me a dream you remember...

May Day! May Day!
San Diego
1 May 65
0700

Am in my room. It stinks. Am about to have an affair with a woman who has sought me out with my wife’s permission. As things begin, the voice of Harold B. Lee suddenly begins to blare forth as if from a loud speaker on the wall of my room. He speaks with unequivocal anger. His voice is terrible in its power. The walls shake, the room rocks, rumbling is heard. Plaster falls from the ceiling. Pictures fall from the walls. I wonder if I am dreaming this. But President (?) Lee’s voice is so clear and I listen carefully to his words that I decide that I am not dreaming. That is when things begin to shake and sound. I awaken. Cannot remember his words. Can only fleetingly remember that he was talking about how the Church is guided.

Why do you think that you had this dream?

From today’s perspective, this seems to be a continued inner refocusing on the Mormon Church. [See Dream Yoga: Beautiful Woman with Bad Reputation].

At the time of this dream I had walked away from the psy-war defense project (PWDP) with Duke University professor J.B. Rhine after having been unsuccessful in getting Mormon Church support. After the difficulty with the Church began over the PWDP, I became involved in a renewed correspondence with an old Mormon mentor, Howard E. Salisbury, who had been a close personal friend and confidant of Harold B. Lee. I learned from the man who had originally introduced us, that Salisbury had recently been excommunicated for “perversion”. This surprised me, since the last I knew, Salisbury was still Chairman of the Fine Arts Department at Ricks College where he enjoyed a reputation for helping talented students develop their abilities.

Recently [early 2006], I learned from Salisbury's close friend and physician that Lee had been grooming Salisbury to become a general authority in 1959 when Salisbury and I were first introduced. The 1965 problem turned out to be that Salisbury had been excommunicated two years earlier (1963) after confessing his struggle over being gay to Hugh B. Brown of the LDS Church First Presidency. Salisbury had gone to see Brown because they had been close personal friends in the aftermath of WWII, when Brown was despondent because of the war and Salisbury had been of significant spiritual and emotional comfort to Brown.

In January 1965 I learned about Salisbury’s excommunication from the man who had introduced us in the summer of 1959 when we were students and friends at UC Berkeley. Salisbury was then at Ricks College and my friend, a graduate of Ricks where he knew Salisbury, wanted me to have the advantage of Salisbury’s wisdom and influence. I had just written my second poem, Night, which reflects my growing difficulty with the Church, my depression a year earlier and Salisbury’s current situation. The poem began as a letter to Salisbury, but quickly morphed into the poem to reflect Salisbury's responses.
Night 

The North is silent. 
Uneasy lull awaits 
As darkness gathers. 

Dry rot unseen in lofty places. 
Unshored structures hid by Blackness. 
Sand and stone appear as one. 

Who beckons travelers? 
Whose voice is clear? 
Why are the sounds unsure? 

Gusts disturb this tortured sleep. 
Words in flooded streams still rage! 
And desperation strips my soul 

Before abyss— 
Or hope. 

San Diego 
Apr 65 

If it were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?

May Day! May Day!

These are the characters in the dream…

Myself, wife, other woman, stench, bedroom, bed, loud speaker, plaster on walls, hanging picture, angry voice of Harold B. Lee.

If one character had something especially important to tell you, which would it be?

Bedroom

Bedroom, would you please tell me what you look like and what you are doing?

I am a small, white plaster-walled bedroom with pictures on the walls, a bed on the floor and a loud speaker high up on the south wall. There is a stench in me. I am observing Eugene about to have sex on the bed with a woman who has sought him out with his wife Betty’s permission. He offers no resistance.

What do you like most about yourself in this experience? What are your strengths?

I am a safe, private place for Eugene to behave as he sees fit.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses? What?

I don’t like how I allow myself to be used. My walls are not well built—that is, they crack easily. Also, I’m rather plain and with little imagination.

If you could change this experience in any way you wanted, would you? If so, how would you change it?

I don’t know how I could change it. That guy blasting away out of the loud speaker sure wreaked havoc on me. I sort of came apart. It would be nice if he could tone down his diatribe.

If that experience were to continue, what would happen next?

Well, Eugene forgot all about that woman and decided he wasn’t dreaming. But then he woke up and I was gone. So, that’s what happened next: he woke up and began to wonder what was going on. He began to investigate, which is a good thing, even though it led him into trouble.

Bedroom, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change? If so, how?

I told you I wasn’t imaginative. I was there for Eugene temporarily to move in directions that seemed essential for his development. I’ve no judgment on how he behaves or what he thinks and believes.

You are in Eugene’s dream, correct? He created you, right?

Well, duh! He created me to help him learn about issues he needed to clarify without outside interference.

Bedroom, what aspect of this person do you represent or most closely personify?

Oh, I think I represent his sense of privacy. He likes to take on all kinds of issues but doesn’t like outside interference. He’s a private person in a public sort of way, if you can comprehend such a contradictory statement.

How would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?

Tens in everything except wisdom. Maybe an 8 or 9 there.

Bedroom, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different? If so, how?

Yes, I think I would be a bit different. I’d be stronger, more pleasant and attractive.

How would Eugene’s life be different if he naturally scored high in all six of these qualities all the time?

He would be more discriminating of whom he let into his life, and he would know better how to respond to the behavior and beliefs of others, especially Mormon ecclesiastics.

If you could live Eugene’s waking life for him, how would you live it differently?

I wouldn’t. He needs to experience these contradictions and pressures first hand as he is doing.

If you could live Eugene’s waking life for him today, would you handle his three life issues differently? If so, how?

Not at all! I think those three life issues are right on! Blessed be those who understand and accept his intent.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of his life?

His are the ones!

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Eugene to imagine that he is you and would act as you would?

What a dumb question to ask a bedroom!

Why do you think that you are in this life dream?

To give Eugene private space to face Mormon issues that he is unconsciously gripped by, such as the woman who seeks him out with his wife’s permission! That’s left over from polygamy days. Then there is the head’s up about Harold B. Lee and his anger. Eugene will encounter Lee's anger directly, face to face, in an interview a little over five months hence. He needs to be prepared. [Because of this dream he was indeed prepared when they met in Lee's Salt Lake City office in September 1965.]

Eugene, what have you heard yourself say?

That I’m wrestling with controversial Mormon issues that are still hot, namely: polygamy, same-sex attraction, the veracity of Joseph Smith and his revelations, the actual process of revelation, Mormon ecclesiastical power and the abuse of that power by its leaders. I will need experience and discernment to deal with them effectively as time and circumstances in world events unfold.

If this experience were a wake-up call from your soul, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Be really careful, Eugene. You have little idea what you are walking into. But keep walking and climbing. It’s your destiny. [See letter from Howard E. Salisbury, dated May 5, 1965.]

“Now I am going to read back to you the comments of your characters as things you are telling yourself.”

(Read them back...)

What can you do differently between now and our next visit to act on the recommendations of your inner wisdom?

Learn to control your anger, especially regarding ecclesiastical issues. Learn the difference between institutional ecclesiastical behavior, ideology, legal concepts (spirit vs letter) and practical behavior. Understand the system, but transcend it. I still need to dialogue with the angry voice of Harold B. Lee who claims to speak for God and how the Mormon Church is led.


posted by Eugene @ 10:36 AM   1 comments

1 Comments:
At 9:18 PM, December 06, 2006, Anonymous Joseph Dillard said...
EK: Dream characters: Myself, first wife, another woman, stench, bedroom, bed, loud speaker, plaster on walls, hanging picture, angry voice of Harold B. Lee.

JD: Generally in Dream Yoga, characters are nouns, as it is easier to become and therefore interview "things" than it is to interview actions and feelings, such as "stench." You can always try, however, and come to your own conclusions!

EK:...So, that’s what happened next: he woke up and began to wonder what was going on. He began to investigate, and that is a good thing, even though it led him into trouble.

JD: OK, bedroom, but what if Eugene 1) hadn't waked up and the dream had continued. What would happen next? Or 2) what if Eugene had decided he wasn't dreaming and continued to have the experience as lucid, but as you saw fit. What would happen next?

EK: ...He likes to take on all kinds of issues but doesn’t like outside interference...

JD: Bedroom, what do you think of the idea that Eugene in this dream is allowing some inappropriate outer interference have too much influence over his private life??

EK: I’m wrestling with controversial Mormon issues that are still very hot...

JD: The Bedroom seems to be encouraging you to emphasize protecting your boundaries, to not let overpowering critical parental voices infringe into your private life.

EK...I still need to dialogue with the angry voice of Harold B. Lee who claims to speak for God and how the Mormon Church is led.

JD: The Bedroom is not angry and is not needing to understand Lee, but only be protected from the intrusion of that consciousness.  Are there times when it would be helpful to become the Bedroom?

EK: Not sure... 




Monday, November 6, 2006

Last Dialogue (of six) with Joseph Smith

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 06, 2006
Dialogues with Joseph, Part 6
November 6, 2006. [Continuing the Family Round Table]
.
[Note: this is the last in a series of six "Dialogues with Joseph".]

ENK: Katya [Eugene's daughter], from your recent Body Talk perspective with me, please tell how you see this entity, who calls himself "Joseph Smith".

KKS: Dad, my take is that this entity is an impostor! An opportunist. It's not the spirit of the historical Joseph Smith, Jr., as you detected by its factual misstep about where the historical Joseph actually died. Your confrontation has allowed us to see it clearly.

ENK: So, you agree that such a misstep was that significant? OK, can you tell how long this "Joseph" has really been around? He says since my birth. Do you see it as a DFE [dark force entity]?

KKS: Yes, a DFE, and I'm getting that it has been around in one guise or another for much longer than that, actually for many generations on your dad's side! What a surprise!

ENK: A surprise for me, too, but it makes other things begin to make sense. How does that affect my understanding of that 23 December 1964 dream? Or that 21 May 1972 event, where you invited me to sing in the Newport Beach Ward on a date that just happened to coincide with my being exactly the age of the historical Joseph Smith at his death?

KKS: I don't get any connection between those two events and this entity. They are independent of each other. This "Joseph" was simply cunning enough to make opportunistic use of information that was out there to feed off your energy and the energy of your dad's and his dad's before him.

ENK: Dad, I sense you have come in to us from the Light. What do you see? Before you passed over and then went into the Light you said you were protecting me from this and other entities. Now that you have been in the Light, what more do you see?

NNK: Well, son, I can escort this "Joseph" into the Light, since he has avoided this step before now.

JS: But I don't want to go!

NNK: Don't be afraid, Joseph. The Light won't hurt you, as you have been deceived into believing. I have been there as you can see, and here I am now. Come with me and you'll be pleasantly surprised.

JS: But I've got work to do and finish with Eugene.

NNK: No you don't. You've been exposed. We know who and what you are. You can disconnect from your masters and come with me. You can find your own divine spark buried deep within you. Your masters can't hurt or threaten you any more. You are as eternal as the rest of us. Come with me. We'll contact their command center to make sure you and they can't interfere with us any more.

JS: It doesn't seem I have much choice, have I?

NNK: Not in staying around my family, you don't. Come with me and let's be done with this interference!

ENK: Thanks, Dad, for coming in as you have. Katya was able to alert me to your presence and it has simplified a problem that has been taking my energy for a long time. And thanks to the rest of you invitees for having come to support us. Don't go away yet. There are loose ends. Do any of you have something to add at this time?

JD [Joseph Dillard]: Yes, EK. This ushering into the Light of an opportunistic DFE-led "Joseph" does not eliminate for you the issue of your connection with the historical Joseph Smith. In order to be free of any possession by his spirit, you must trace your identity to before his was formed and even before the identity of Jesus was formed. Yes, even before the Earth was formed.

ENK: Thank you for this insight, JD. It is actually easy for me to trace my sense of self directly to our Ultimate Creative Source, when we were all intelligences, but before any of us were made manifest and disbursed to begin our respective soul journies--before the Light itself was originally manifested. That is why I cannot subscribe to any particular ideology or religion these days. All that came after manifestation.

JD: That's the point, EK! Namaste'!

ENK: Yes, Namaste', my friend and brother. Anyone else?
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November 11, 2006

WB [William Baldwin]: Eugene, you need to be sure that there are no threads left connected to the "Joseph" DFE or to the network it was associated with. This can be acheived with Spirit Releasement Therapy (SRT).

ENK: Yes, Bill, I remember when I had a session with you and your wife Judith back in 1991, just before I met David Cheek. We met at that same TREAT III conference in Kansas City.

WB: Right. If I remember correctly we located a dark commander attached to you and managed to squeeze him into the Light. I'm not sure what else came up then.
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ENK: I don't either, but I'll revisit that recording and find out. When I do that I'll reconvene this round table discussion. Thank you all for being here. Until we meet again, Namaste'!
At 10:32 AM, November 22, 2006, Eugene said...
ENK: Bill, I revisited and transcribed our March 1991 session with you and Judith. Yes, there was a dark commander that came into view and was squeezed into the Light. He was interfering with your attempt to usher my dad into the Light. But you did not return to that attempt (ushering Dad into the Light) before doing a complete releasement on me. The attachments of "Joseph Smith" and my "father" were left for David Cheek to discover and address in subsequent sessions shortly after yours. [See: Dialogues with Joseph, Part 2] 
At 10:36 AM, November 22, 2006, Eugene said... 
This brings closure to "Dialogues with Joseph". Future dialogues will proceed as "Dialogues with Inner Family". 

At 8:00 AM, November 25, 2006, Eugene said...
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WB: Yes, Eugene, while this Joseph entity is bound for the Light, you still have not addressed carefully all of its connections with a dark forces network that it has been a part of. Have you traced all the threads that may be attached to others of your family, especially to your sons? Those threads will need to be followed and severed.

ENK: No, I have not yet addressed that, myself. But you did such a cleansing back in 1991 in Kansas City with your wife Judith. Do you not remember?

WB: Yes, but I do not remember speaking to Joseph at that time. We spoke to other aspects of you, such as you at age 16 and at age 5.

ENK: Yes, I have that on tape. That was before I met with David Cheek the next day, where he did a formal induction and found "Joseph". I didn't know why you didn't locate this Joseph before then.

WB: I don't either, Eugene.

ENK: But I have now reviewed the tape of that session and have discovered why this Joseph eluded your Spirit Releasement process.

WB: Tell me more.

ENK: Well, you were in process of encouraging my father to go into the Light, when the process was interrupted by and DFE--a dark commander.

WB: I do remember that.

ENK: You did a thorough job of flushing out that DFE and then working through a SRT with me. But you apparently forgot to stay with my dad until you actually saw him go into the Light. He stayed with me, as did this "Joseph", who had not yet identified himself. It took David Cheek's follow up sessions to address these residuals.

WB: Well done, Eugene and David! There is still much work to be done. I am available when you need me.

ENK: Thank you, Bill. We'll talk yet again. Namaste'!

WB: Namaste'!